and to wish you all a very happy and peaceful fourth of july. dylan's here and ready to take us forward. what are you doing over this weekend? >> first of all, take your well-wishes personally as if you just wished me a happy holiday weekend. >> of course. >> assuming that was basically intended for me as i was watching it here. it was wonderful. >> always an issue with you, dylan. everything that goes around, revolves around you. and it's true. >> the flaw. the definitive character flaw that burdens my very existence, martin. >> if your show. take it away. >> have a great weekend. thank you, mr. bashir. our show does begin right now. well, good afternoon to you. the big story today, obvious one. start your engines people. good friday afternoon to you. my name is dylan ratigan, and

like 39 million of the rest of you, we're all getting ready to get out of dodge. here comes 5:00 and the fourth of july weekend. take a look. the cars, of course, on the road. l.a., san francisco, fort worth, chicago, summertime in america, ladies and gentlemen. lots of folks getting a jump on the weekend and, of course, the weather doesn't look so bad, does it? with gas prices up 80 cents from last year not to mention the rising costs of hotels, airfare, not everyone can afford such a get away. staycations are big this year. aaa expecting a million more folks to opt out of traveling and instead cook out at home. speaking of barbecues, those will also cost you more as well. $61 including the beer. driving the price increase charcoal and lighter fluid. unfortunately higher food prices thanks to the old federal reserve money printing. nothing new to us, but who knew hamburgers and ketchup could break the bank?

thank you, ben bernanke. well well whether you're resting at home or traveling, we have it covered. an estimated 3 million flying. perhaps where our concerns are the most serious right now. not just in the short term from stowaways to controversial pat-downs, to even being stung by a scorpion in flight. the intolerable experience of dealing with the tsa and at the same time no apparent real ability to intervene in critical situations has all of us frustrated. ron paul calls it evidence of the military industrial complex run amuck. kate, founder of fliersrights.org. kate, do you share congressman paul's views what we're experiencing, pat dourns for old ladies, or what we're doing to the children, that basically we have, perhaps, a well-intended mission for airline security they is completely run amuck at this point? >> completely one amok. i do share his views and most airline passengers share his

views and many people just refuse to fly now because it's become intolerable. it's un-american. there's no safety that we can find evidenced out of tsa checkpoint. you've got people getting through with boarding passes that aren't matching i.d.s and 92-year-old women told to take off their diapers and not given another one. what has this world come to when it comes to air travel? >> at the end of the day, it becomes apparent basically that homeland security military industrial complex and all the fearmongering from the past decade that's cultivate add culture willing to blow trillions on equipment that makes all of our lives more miserable and yet doesn't necessarily protect us to the degree that we could be, how do we organize in a way that actually helps us to force this debate to a more intelligent place? we all want to be safe and obviously not subjected to this absurdity? >> i don't think they originally intended to have tsa become 60,000 people strong and i don't

think that they well thought through how they were going to effectively implement true security in the u.s. you have israel way 100% track record. profile, 60 seconds with each passenger, interview them, check out behavior. see if they're stressed, tense, angry. how they answer questions. look at boarding pass and identification and make sure it's correct and flawless in their security. we could, too, and could save money by getting fewer highly skilled, highly trained people able to identify the difference between a 92-year-old woman who can't walk, who's being told to take off her depends diaper and ap true terrorist. >> i could not agree with that more, and i know so many would agree with you and me on this matter. we've had, in fact, the former head of security from el-al on this show who walked us through specifically how they do it. how effective it is, how little it costs and quite honest any

they mock and laugh how silly america is to spend the amount of capital and resources both in human energy and in financial capital to get such dismal results. america does ultimately use behavioral profile s when it comes to the border. when it comes to searching for drugs. when it comes to what's going on in mexico and canada. i find it peculiar we try to hold this false ideal of democracy up that we would never do beharrell profiling when we already to do it at the border. can you get me through what you perceive at the political barrier to doing the right thing here? >> i actually believe the scanner companies and the companies that create all of this technology that they're using at the checkpoints are running the show. they're lobbying the government, telling them these are the ideas that are going to keep us safe with full knowledge that the cargo in the bell if passenger planes for the most part, the u.s. may is not screened. you've got ground workers that are not screened.

you've got vendors in the airports that are not being screened. so it is entirely security theater. it has to stop. we are spending trillions of dollar as year on technology that does not keep us safe. they've never once caught a terrorist at a tsa checkpoint and are humiliating ordinary americans every day, and people are choosing not to fly and it's having a profound impact on the air travel industry as well as the economy in general. >> and all of our connectedness to each other we've gloriously worked for the past several years to live in a way around each other in the way air travel allowed for. brian williams last night, who i believe is one of the more brilliant communicators we have in this country and i don't just say that because i work with the man. i say that because he's able to do things like what he did last night on tsa in characterizing what it's like to fly at the same time we are missing the very critical things you were just describing. i wanted to show you brian's version of things here. >> we all know the drill by now.

you wait in the first line, walk up to the podium. they look at your i.d., look at you. look bat back at your i.d., pass the match irk blue flashlight scribble on your boarding pass with a ben so can you get in line to take your shoes off put your laptop in the tray before getting scanned or x-rayed ar pawed by someone you don't know wearing gloves before you are able to truly enjoy the thrill of commercial air travel. >> that is -- true. you know, brian williams is my hero. he actually broke our story five years ago when our family was trapped op the tarmac and is so eloquently outlined the horror of our experience and calling in the flight from hell which is was. now he's got tsa literally groping elderly people and children, and americans want to be safer. so in general, they'll accept it, but our rights are really being degraded. and it's not keeping us any

safer. >> exactly. we an ultimate model, cheaper, and more effective. we are insane. >> we are insane. i don't know why people accept it and accept this theater. i think it's because they want to think they're safe and just get on the road, get on the plane and arrive safely and not have to think too much about the possible, you know, consequences. and there's really no way to guarantee, ever, that you're 100% safe when you travel. but i think we really need to wake up as americans. we really need to shout out to the government and say, look. please, put effective security in place. stop humiliating us. stop making regular american whose don't pose a threat do things that make them very, very uncomfortable and that really violates their rights. >> you just said it and we're going to keep saying it. let's turn our attention to flight culture for just a second. a slightly more frivolous affair but i wonder if whether some of the behavior we're seeing on the

airplanes is in some way as passive aggressive response to the oppressive nature of the experience? your thoughts on those who are, for instance, demanding babies be kept out of first class? or a picture of some guy boarding an airplane wearing nothing but women's underwear. >> oh, my god. i know. first of all, before you have the guy arrested for slouching pants, then the next day on the same airline, allow a guy in a laced teddy with thigh high stockings to fly. i think the airline industry is extremely confused, but passengers are even more confused about what they can and can't or should or shouldn't do, and that's because it's actually not spelled out. if there were specific rules in the contracts that said, this is what you can and can't say. this is what you can and can't wear and this is what you can and can't do, otherwise you're going to get arrested then i think you would see some models of good behavior on airlines and you'd see a little more control. the flight attendants are not clear ith perp there's a lot of

subjective interpretations made by some flight attendants at times not necessarily happy with their jobs and it's just -- it's mass confusion. i don't know -- i really don't know how they can run their business the way that this is happening now, and it doesn't -- it's like -- it's impossible for me to understand how women in miniskirts can be kicked off planes when 20 years ago the flight attendants were wearing hot pants. >> not only that, the pot hot pants were mandatory. >> a certain height, weight, had to be beautiful. it's very interesting, the juxtaposition now from 20 years ago and it's very confusing to a lot of people who travel. >> a delight to the have this conversation with pup thank you for your efforts in general to try to draw attention to these issues. i totally agree we can and should and really need to do better. we can't afford to continue to blow money like this for all the obvious reasons. hope you have a great holiday, kate. >> thank you, you too. coming up, bye-bye geithner.

the rumor mill turning about the future of the treasury secretary? he's an economic risk right now. plus, dominique strauss-kahn a free man this afternoon. shocking ton of events in the alleged rape case. does anyone know whatted in that hotel room? obviously two people do, but the friday mig georgia panel weighing in and happy fourth of july to you. america, happy birthday. happy independence, and for all the folks celebrating, just know taking your baby to the parade could have lifelong political consequences. be careful what you do. we'll explain after this. >> ( rooster crows ) >> by 2020, 50 billion network devices will roam the earth. that's seven devices per person. this will change how we work in ways we've never before imagined. what do you need to secure your people, their devices, and your business? a network that can evolve

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another day, another fake debt date to worry about. freak out people. i want to you freak out. of course, the freakout deadline is august 2nd. congress needs a deal in place by july 22nd. just three weeks away. i hope you're afraid. originally the white house want add deal by this weekend. that didn't happen. that compared to, i thought so far to explain the debt ceiling, it's just like having a curfew set by extraordinarily sprict parents, that they always change. our friday mega panel here to hear me out. democratic strategist chris and msnbc contributor terre. we must deal with the debt problem. a debate how much debt we have, why. the health care, banking system, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, at

the same time to put us in a situation by this day if this doesn't happen all the other things will blow to smithereens when we know the treasury is manipulating that date based how it's playing with the numbers and the government is printing currency from scratch and the entire thing is basically pro wrestling theater. how do we deal with the debt ceiling debate and deal with the debt, the real issue, without getting ourselves into a panic over something that really is a pretend deadline? >> start with what the debt creeling is to begin with, which is a completely arbitrary congressly mandated. >> curfew. >> we've already decided to spend the money. right? the money is spent. this is just a political gimmick to buy the republicans, hold them hostage. >> both parties have bought into. >> no. >> the republicans are manipulating, democrats are just as happy to have a day and debate as the republicans are. just using it differently. >> no. because republicans are saying if you don't give us what we want we won't raise the ceiling.

>> they're the ones -- fair enough. we won't move the curfew unless you behave the way we want you to behave. >> politics is actually getting anything done. back to the president bragging on this daughters talking about malia and sasha get their homework done a day, a week, a month, a year before they were due. i didn't realize they were those sorts of kids, but glad to know applications for harvard are already done, even though they're, what, eighth grade? seventh grade? they're going to study for the final right before the final. so when they're backed into the wall and must have a deal and the clock is running out like in a movie, then they'll get something done. that's what we'll look forward to. >> i'm enjoying the analogy but i want to extend it. >> go for it. >> look, the problem here is

that we don't have a strict parent, to your interim. because for years, we have seen both parties raise the debt ceiling. this is more like mom and dad went out of town. right? and they asked barack obama to come in, baby-sit for the week and no one's taking his curfew seriously. >> very good. that was good, yes. >> now, let me be clear so people don't misunderstand me. i blame the republicans for tactics. they had every right to threaten shutting down government. that's something they believe in and a year-to-year question. they don't have the right to do this, ots of the way congress and the treasury are supposed to work. we're not going to solve a generational problem overnight. >> right. >> and that is where it starts. where's it ends, though, where it must end, where it should have ended already, barack obama coming to the nation giving a speech to the country saying this is what's happening in washington, it's wrong and i'm drawing a line. that's it. no more negotiations. >> then the fundamental problem neither the democrats nor the

republicans are prepared to have the structural debate in the country, that the country demands that explains why the deficit is as big as it is, why health care costs as much as it does, why we spend as much on defense and war, why we spend so much on energy, because neither party wants to deal with that they use different tactics, fundamental, whether conscious or unconscious add distracting from the structural debates that desperately needs to happen? >> she says yes, and you explain. >> well, when you -- >> she says i agree, and you tell me why she agrees. >> wooer so on the same page. >> the plant doesn't know it's doing photosynthesis. okay? okay? the politicians -- >> a little off, but i'll take it. >> i like biology. so, okay. is that what you were saying yes to? no? >> the politicians don't have to have a meeting to say, let's duck the real problems. let's duck the real -- they don't have to -- what they do in

washington -- yes. >> listen, the debt ceiling, we'll talk about it after the fourth or something. but the last thing i'll say -- >> last thing. >> so you can enjoy your barbecue. what's going on with the debt ceiling, go a computer, google, blockberg, yahoo! finance and look at what's interesting. what's the yield on a ten-year bond? you ask, what the hell is that? trust me. do that. the people that lend us money are not worried. so the actual financial markets are looking, saying, look at these idiots putting on a circus when we all know full well there's no way they'll actually be a default. when you see the interest rates in the bond market spike, you don't have to watch me on tv, follow me on twitter. look at the bond market. look what the number is. what's the yield on the ten-year bond? that will tell what you is actually going on in the debt ceiling debate. the rest of this is nothing but hocus-pocus and on to we go, our

friend dominick strauss-kahn, the accused rapist, former heir to the presidency, as it were or heir to the candidacy for presidency in france. released today from his house arrest in lower manhattan on news that while dominique strauss-kahn may still be indicted as a rapist, as an accused rapist, his accuser is now indicted as an individual of diminished character. toure, the implications here, doesn't seem to be there's a debate about whether they sex. >> there's evidence to say, clearly, that they did have sex, but she's no longer the -- >> our friend said we entered the situation she was a saint. he was a -- she's no longer a saint. >> he's still a creep. >> still think something happened but don't know what. she's no longer the perfect witness. the saddest thing about this is that rape is an underreported crime.

not an overreported crime. badly underreported crime and this just goes further to a culture of, maybe i shouldn't say anything, because if i get attacked an who know what's will lap to me when i come forward and say -- >> there's no crime that represents this degree of violence that is so -- that there's a playbook so frequently to respond by indicting the character of the accused? >> far more likely a woman will not report a rape that happens and will wrongly report a rape that didn't happen. know what i'm saying? >> absolutely. >> exactly right. i mean, we don't want to jump to conclusions in this thing. i have to say at the beginning, i did jump to the conclusion he was guilty. i did. and i don't want to do that again. just because she doesn't have a perfect record doesn't mean that something bad didn't happen to her. >> of course. >> and what motive would she have? i don't understand what woman would want to put herself in that spotlight and open herself up to this kind of scrutiny. it's lard to understand what the motive would be. >> i mean, good for him today. whatever it is.

the guy's out of the house, has more mobility and the guy has more legal leverage. go ahead. >> this is a problem with the way we as a culture and ultimately especially the media talk about the issues. the woman was accusing him of a very serious crime of rape. she is innocent until proven otherwise. the man accused of this serious crime is innocent until proven otherwise. right? that's our system. we have to remember that goes in both directions. and what we have here, according to the prosecutors, discussions withed media, not put itty transparent, the report of a sexual encounter, rots r reports she's been lying, spoke to someone incarcerated. recorded, something she misled prosecutors about but we do not have the full story and we need to proceed slowly and a lot of the discussion thus far has gone too far and assuming too much about both of them. >> the primary reason for that, it's so pleasing for the cackling crowd, whether people like us or elsewhere, to do exactly that thing, because you've got a powerful man.

you've got a victimized woman, and everybody wants to say, well, did it do it? didn't he do it? what do you think? da, da, da. you all made great points. take a moment, take a break, and with really no credibility whatsoever, no southern brute said at all but i do like the phrase and we'll bring the panel back in a little while to talk about the forced lockouts. right now a moment terry break and come back with the authors of the declaration of independence. and i'm not talking about thomas jefferson. it's the problem with the political parties, they've got too much in common? my doctor told me calcium is best absorbed in small continuous amounts. only one calcium supplement does that in one daily dose. new citracal slow release... continuously releases calcium plus d for the efficient absorption my body needs. citracal. for the efficient absorption my body needs.

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at first glance you would think republicans and democrats are bitter partisan enemy whose disagree on everything. could the problem in washington actually be they agree on too much? look beyond the pro wrestling to

the details, democrats and republicans who get all their money from the same six industries, agree on all the big stuff. they both want to bail out the banks, both are into endless war and a military complex and drugs as opposed to looking at drugs at a public health issue, both into the housing market, both into avoiding dealing with massive energy waste and inefficiency in favor of fuel source debates and nonsense and of course both want to go after wikileaks. so on this independence day weekend, we ask -- is this lockstep agreement between the two parties on the basic structure of our nation the very thing that is crushing our republic? and our independence? so say two libertarian thinkers, matt well mp and nick gillespie, author of the "the declaration of independence" and it is a pleasure to welcome you two of you. i will start with you, because you're in the room. you get the privilege of the

first response. what are you trying to communicate in this book? >> largely that all of you out there who are independents, who are feeling set up for the two-party system as we know it now, it's okay. you're making a rational choice. they're the largest political block. a new thing in american history now. they've grown the last 40 years especially the last 10 as you capitulate. thank you for rehearsing the first third of our book in your intro. >> the entire premise of my television show. we happen to be shooting in the same direction, dut carry on. >> our premise, that's a rational choice, like everything else in american life. brands, no longer easily a shoe horn into the chevrolet or gm. what does that mean for the future? we want to speed up the process by which decisions and policy are made on the individual level, and not by one team taking it the production. >> basically you're saying you agree with me completely that the red sox, yankees, democrat, republican models for political debate is actually a total

blockage to the necessary debate on issues, whether it's energy, health care? the question is not only republican or democrat but what are the values you would resign to resolving health care, energy, education and -- >> an obfuscation when the parties hold power they start acting -- both in favor of bailout economics. just yesterday the department of justice decided they're going to start prosecuting medical marijuana, legal medical marijuana in the states it's legal now. how is barack obama any different from george w. bush when it comes to the war on drugs? >> missing a critical distinction. i believe that president obama is a bit tuller. seriously. >> i think -- >> never mind. more in common than i thought. nick, how do we get the structure debate that you want that i want? we may not agree thousand solve the problems but clearly agree we're not getting the debate we need to be having in order to

return investment and job creation and problem solving and all the sorts of stuff that we all want to have happen here? >> well, weren't of the things we talk about in the book is that in so many parts of our lives when we're talking about things like the workplace, talking about lifestyle, acceptance, it tends to kind of broaden the palate of what constitute and american. we define ourselves differently. when we go online and shop, when we go to the coffee store, we can get more stuff. decision-making has been democratized in that more people are enfranchised to make decisions and decentralized. we're able to control what's going on in our lives in many, many ways. it's probably looking to examples from the private sector where some things are flourishing. where human beings are flourishing. it's easier than ever to get by 23 you're gay. that's not really because of laws. politics are a lagging indicator. you know, it's better, air travel is batter now than 30 or 40 years ago.

>> tell you what, everybody likes to think of me as the idealist, dylan, you don't understand. how things are. well, i'm going to play the cynic with you two right now. >> sure. >> love to do all this. it's wonderful. the fact of the matter is that the threat to incumbent power represented by the fact we are so close to this-this narrative we're discussing truly affecting the country. everybody's saying, listen, we need a structural debate. i don't know the answer but this is not the right debate. is the moment at which the status quo structure, the banking, health care, military, agriculture and communications industries that are the six industries that fund all political parties and all politicians are going to find themselves imminently threatened by this and are going to respond, i presume and already are violently to preserve themselves. how do we navigate this without finding ourselves in either a split society or a true -- i don't want to dissolve into a state of hostility and war in this country, obviously.

we want to ease into a state of collaborative problem-solving. seems this could go either way. >> what we talk about is not just independence in politics as a force but independence from politics as a strategy. take two different phenomena and both have similarities, strangely. the howard d. anti-war movement in 2004 and 2005 came out of nowhere. exploded on the scene. grandmothers using online technology in ways no one had seen before and compare that to the tea party movement. also a grass roots type of movement. spontaneous combustion, reminding republicans that you used to be for a limited government but now are not. the howard dean movement got consumed with a democratic party and power structure peelected chairman. voted for the anti-war candidate, barack obama and now where is the anti-war left? they don't exist for the most part. >> brilliant on the democrats's part to do that, by the way. >> the oldest trick in the scout master's handbook. you get the trouble makeaire

responsible role and he becomes the enforcer for you. here is one of the ways that you get around it. first off, dylan, be optimistic. if the soviet union could collapse it shouldn't be hard to push nancy pelosi and john boehner around. i don't think. beyond that, you know, the fact that we're out of money at every level. the federal, state and local level, means that politicians, they can't just get the money from the industries you're talking about. they've got to get it from taxpayers, and taxpayers increasingly are saying, we've had enough. again, we might disagree on a lot of the, the solutions to the questions that are being raised, but the questions are being raised and you're seeing politicians who are breaking with the mold. whether it's ron wall or rand paul or mike lior even somebody like dennis cue soon itch, barney frank. >> bernie sanders. >> yeah, these are people, they are gaining in prominence and they are screwing around with the, you know, the kind of settled categories. if somebody like tom coburn, got

to be four big military. in fact, he's one of the lead be republicans, leading senators, questioning whether or not the military industrial complex should have a blank check. >> everybody shis bernie sanders is a big left. can't find a stronger capital for a more conservative point of view than capital requirements than bernie sanders. i think as we understand the narrative collectively better about what it means to be conservative what it means to have investment innovation and problem-solving in a way that is fair and collaborative, i think that finding these values to all systems, assigning them, becomes more and more possible and i suspect the two of you are very much a part of that and i congratulate you on the book. absolute pleasure. have a great independence day. there's the book. "declaration of independence." looking for something patriotic, it is even, as you can see, papered in red, white and blue. next, a warning for partisan parents. before you go to the fourth of july fireworks you should know it could determine your child's

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liberty mutual auto insurance. responsibility. what's your policy? a little something to keep in mind on this monday, independence day. heading to a parade, i don't know what you're going to do. taking your kids, for instance to a fourth of july celebration of some kind, a parade, fireworks, turn them into a republican. other than that, you'll be find. the finding of a new harvard university study, attending one-fourth of july before the age of 18 up as child's likelihood as identifying as a republican by 2% and krin ess the odds they'll vote for a gop candidate by 4% and swaying political preferences, exposing them to hoopla they're contribute cash to campaigns. forget kissing babies. maybe the gop hopefuls should start firing off bottle rockets.

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lockout. today nba owners locked out players in a fight over, of course, money. the two sides so far apart they can't even agree how many teams are losing money. it's gotten so petty the nba stripped pictures of the players in team websites and nba.com. take that. and any coach who mentioned a player on twitter will be fined a cool million dollars. we catch any of those kaech coaches, jut tell somebody. day one of the nba lockout. the nfl locked out since march. the specialist and sports writer, supersports fan. get us up to speed how screw wed are. the mega panel back in effect. ari, krystal and toure. actually tour see is very

distraught. how bad is it? >> worse than the nfl by a cool country mile. i'm mad as hell. what people need to understand when asking themselves why is the nba locked out as well. the nba in the 2010-2011 season had record revenues. spent $2.5 million on salvis. the high nest history. television, all-time high. despite all that, 22 of the 30 teams are claiming to have lost money. 22 out of 30. this is a stinky kettle of fish. it's not just about greed and wanting more. it's about the fact that nba owners have horribly mismanaged their product and what players to pay the freight on that. that's what we're looking at.

>> davo you think that's true, david, this is toure. do you think that's true about 22 out of 30 teams didn't make money? >> i think it's more true than not. in the nfl there's a lockout because owners refused to answer the players association when they said three words. open the books. they refused to open the books and show that they had any kind of the hardships they were claiming. the nba, david stern, they actually have opened the books. i've talked to people in the nba players association. people on the executive council of players and they may disagree on how many of those teams are losing money, but it is say greed that a lot of teams are losing money and i think it's because a typical nba owner, i mean, they have the personal fiscal discipline of -- of a trunk. they're like -- somebody in a fireworks factory with a zippo. they -- they sign these players

to these massive contracts as if someone has a gun to their head and then they say, oh, this is terrible. we don't want to have to pay these guys. this is awful. it's like, no one forced you to sign brendan haywood for $60 million. that was your decision. and so they actually want the union to give them the fiscal discipline that they're unable to provide for themselves. >> well, speaking of brendan hayward, this is krystal ball. two questions. one when are the washington wizards going to be good? and number two -- number two, as you mentioned, the nba had an amazing year. ratings phenomenal. best in a long time. how much is this lockout going to hurt the momentum that they have? >> let me answer the second question, because i am a washington wizards' fan. >> you feel my pain. >> and i don't feel like crying on the airi'm not sally field. i don't want to weep to the cameras here. i'm not even going to talk about the wizards. it hurts. as far as the nba, they are

squandering goodwill now and frankly the best hope we have of ending this lockout is because the central division right now is frankly not between david stern and the owners and the players. it's between the owners who have mismanaged their teams and the owners who are saying, wait a minute. you're killing the golden goose right now. right now the owner of the heat, mark cuban, owner ever the dallas mavericks, ryan storr, who owns the bulls. james dolan, even though it knicks are terrible, making money hand over fist, these -- yes? oh, come on. >> talking about -- get out of here. >> look, look -- look, this is james dolan, the sort of guy who speaks about his youthful indiscretions with drugs and alcohol. then you look at fine print and find out he was 49 during his youthful discretion. this is -- dave dolan made his

money the old-fashioned way. inherited it. i have no respect for james dolan. >> and i don't think any of this la to do weren't anything. >> i'm sorry. >> the knicks, two all-stars. who you got? >> off on the knicks, i'm not responsible for my actions. the point is, dylan's correct. at the end of the day, it's the fan who takes it on the chin in all this, because these are tough time. we actually need sports. for community cohesion, for distractions, just to put our feet up and forget about the day. the nba just had its best season in memory. the idea there won't be ball this fall? it's horrific to me and, hey, college basketball is happy right now, but we're not. >> this is ari. the last question, i think. this whole thing looks like an indiscretion giving the hard time. worth raising. everybody here is tone deaf or think the fanless get over it once the games are back on?

what's the thinking? >> interestingly enough, i don't think the players are tone deaf. you might have heard this, 50 showed up for the last negotiation meeting wearing t-shirt. bright yellow t-shirt that said, fan. and they walked in the room and david stern had a look on his face like someone opened up some stinky cheese or something. he couldn't believe they had the temerity to show up organized wearing the same stherts and ready to rumble. players feel this is a question about the future of the game. they feel if the nba owners get they are christmas list, teamless have a couple high-paid superstars and a rack of play, fighting just to play the following year and thomas, who plays for the hawks made this point to me. if the owners get their way it will hurt basketball. like the game itself, because everybody's going to be trying to get their stats, because they might not have a job the next week. if you don't have a middle class of players in the nba it actually distorts how players will play the game. >> let's move from one irritating sports conversation to another.

the nfl. obviously got this whole thing started as they got themselves on turned inside out on multibillion dollar stadium deals that now all want the players to pay for as a result of the inside-out nature of our economic system. i understand there are the rhetoric, the rumor mill is the real issue now in the nfl now, dave, some owners are split from other owners. it is an owner-owner battle. kind of what you described with the nba. is that, in fact, the case? >> that is the case. and the nfl it's tricky, because you only need eight owners to block a deal. and that's apparently what there is. there are eight owners, people who just do not want the league to go forward. and you have this conflict now between some owners, like jerry jones, who are saying, hey, i just built a billion dollar stadium. $1.5 billion, actually. $400 million was taxpayer money. i owe all this money to the bank. if we don't have football this fall i'm going to be -- on a

welfare line. i mean, literally. like bankruptcy would be in jerry jones' future if there's no football this fall. and that's actually kind of a comical thought, i see a reality show. on the flip side of that, people like ralph wilson, owner of the bills, who are just saying, you know, i want this fundamentally restructured. i want something in there that says the wives of nfl players must show up to games wearing white gloves and pillbox hats. there's kind of a kated approach -- i'm kidding, of course. >> we're laughing. we're laughing. i was thinking that's not a bad idea. >> i know. very classy. >> like the kentucky derby. >> recalcitrant block of eight owners are stopping progress? happening, but i do believe, mark it down, there will be a deal by july 15th. >> d.r. show super fan in sports, the man about town. if you want to know what's going on and how it feels to find

yourself to dave and he'll carry the emotional burden for you. you do it well and with great entertainment. we appreciate it. dave xyron. talk to you next time. coming up here -- first a fair well to our fan. i'm going to keep him. don't ask me why, and ask you two to leave and enjoys your -- anyway, we take a break, ladies and gentlemen. "hardball" is coming up moments from now as chris looks at minnesota's government shutdown. and chris asked how it is. if we could all just get along. first, something to look forward to as we enjoy the fourth of july. our friends, our neighbor, toure, on what these duelling lockouts mean for the men of america. s ]s s s ♪ [ cat meows ]

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well, what is a man to do in a sports walkout like this? our friend toure has the "daily rant". >> last night on "sportscenter" the anchor said which lockout do we leave with? i felt tears rushing up through my head and towards my eyes. of course, i didn't cry. i'm a guy. but i almost did. can you blame me? we're heading rapidly towards a fall and winter with no nfl, and no nba. kidding. verklempt. out loud. i need the moment. >> i need you to keep it together. two minutes away from the fourth of july weekend. >> all right. we've all dealt with one sport

going on strike, but two stoppages at once? what are we going to do? i'm going to read "infinite jest." a legendary thousand page novel. read that or the gray 500 page "malcolm x" biography. a lot of time. write that book you've had kicking around in your head, or take your wife to that museum she loves. ever seen "apocalypse now" redone. over three hours long and incredible. steve soderbergh's movie, four hours long, or go see the clock. the great art film that's 24 hours long. it's a genius meditation on time, which you're going to have plenty of during this fourth apocalypse. the problem isn't just what to do during the times when the games would have been played. so much of men's lives are constructed around sports. we watch games, read about players we lost, watch highlights of games we didn't watch. plan team moves and argue about

sports. the vast majority of what men talk about with other men comes down to work and sports. without sports? how do we fill the void in male conversations? by talking about our relationships? our feelings? our clothes? i feel ill. only so much baseball can give us. there's other sports. golf, but tiger probably won't be there. tennis, nadal's amazing. college soccer, football, basketball, nascar, lacrosse. bowling? what am i saying. this will not be the time to flirt with alcoholism. witness you get drunk you'll start crying and wishing you had games to watch. do you what did the last time you got dumped. when a woman leaves you, we still want, it's best not wallow in your pain, do not sit around looking at pictures, thinking how good she was in bed. you don't want to wallow in old foot ap of the nba and nfl at